An Introduction to MINER – Interview with CEO & Founder, Christian Goodell
Your Gold Is in the Safest Vault in the World (Already!)
Meet our fascinating and values-driven CEO and founder, Christian Goodell, (interviewed by Abheeti Kathryn Pass, Communications Director at The Miner Network) and find out why MINER has the best of both worlds – the best of gold and the best of crypto.
In this deep dive conversation, we explore what MINER token is, and exactly what it’s not.
We talk about why MINER’s so important – not just for our hip pocket to protect our hard-earned wealth in inflationary, inflammatory times, but also in terms of the planet.
“MINER’s literally the safest place you could put your wealth in uncertain times.”
~ Christian Goodell, CEO & Founder of The Miner Network
Start of Interview:
Christian, how did you come to be the founder and CEO of The Miner Network? What inspired you to drive this business forward?
We’ve reached an inflection point in society in so many ways right now, and one of those is financial.
I think most people watching this video would understand that we’re at a sort of precipitous moment in the global economy. We wanted to create something that would be a safe hedge. A place for people to find a safe haven in a very unstable, unprecedented level of difficulty in the global economy.
That was a big part of the impetus of it.
In terms of the organisation itself, one of the catchphrases is ‘cleaning up the dirtiest businesses in the world’.
It’s questionable whether mining is the dirtiest business, but how did you come to want to change the face of mining in this way?
By accident, or by learning.
We use the catchphrase that we’re, ‘cleaning up the dirtiest business in the world’ when really, it’s one of them. I don’t even want to make the claim truly that it’s the dirtiest business in the world.
I mean, big agriculture is problematic.
Big banking is problematic.
Resource Extraction or Mining, Which Is at the Heart of the Miner Token, Is Extremely Problematic
We need minerals.
We need metals.
We need gas and oil.
We need things.
We need extraction, but this sort of extractivism that we’re practicing as a species, is destroying our environment.
And it comes at high human cost, as well.
So, when I say we wound up in the ‘cleaning up part of it’ by accident, what I really mean is that we set out to create a digital asset that had intrinsic value behind it.
The Value of the MINER Token Is the Labour of Gold Mining
It’s the service of mining gold. We deliver physical 24 karat refined hallmarked gold to our customers.
As we got into buying gold mines, we thought that running our mines clean and properly, and in a way that we could be proud of, would be enough. The accident we learned very early on, was just how dirty the business can be – both with the mines that we were acquiring and taking over, but also just in general out in the world.
Gold mining and almost all extractivist business is very dirty. It wasn’t enough if we were going to be involved. Really the gold was to add value to the crypto, because we were very interested in the crypto.
As we got more into it we realised that to have clean gold, or gold that’s responsibly mined, meant we had to do it ourselves, first of all.
And then as we started doing it ourselves, we realised that’s not enough.
We Really Need to Be Industry Leaders
If we’re going to be in this business, we’re going to do it as industry leaders. We’re going to set an example and we’re going to live by our own example.
We’re going to use our ability to scale once we’ve developed the proof of concept in our own mines; to scale into mining operations that are likewise clean, proper businesses that don’t have the human and environmental costs.
So if we were going to look at summarising what MINER is – you’ve referred to the crypto aspect, to the token and you’re referring to gold. Let’s imagine you’re at a bus stop…
How would you explain what MINER does in a really straightforward way?
Each MINER token represents one minute of gold mining service. We think that’s important because it places value on human labour and that service, rather than, say, a security…
The value is not on gold itself, it’s not on stocks, bonds or anything else.
It’s not pegged to a currency.
It’s not a stable coin.
It’s also not a security token.
What it is, is that each token is one minute of gold mining service. If you acquire enough MINER tokens, you can redeem them for the service and in doing so, we’ll deliver the product of that service – which is 24 karat refined gold bars.
We have several products. They’re different sizes of gold bars.
You Can’t Purchase the Token Because We Don’t Sell Tokens
You can’t purchase the token because we don’t sell tokens, but you can purchase the service (which is purchasing a minute of mining time).
The token is a digital representation of that minute, which can be redeemed for the service at any point if you need the physical gold for a supply chain.
Let’s say you’re a jewellery manufacturer and you need it for your supply chain. You can redeem that token, or a sufficient number of tokens, to receive physical delivery of 24 karat gold from our refineries.
Then if you don’t need it, if you’re not in the gold supply chain, but rather you’re looking for a safe hedge in the market, a way to have intrinsic value in what you’re holding as your assets, then you can just hold MINER token.
You Probably Don’t Have a Need for It
At any point you want to convert to gold you can, but you probably don’t have a need for it. (Other than to put it in your own safe or bury it in the backyard, or put it in a vault at the bank or something.)
You don’t have a need for it, so it’s in the safest vault in the world already. It’s 30 feet underground in Alaska right now. You have your claim ticket to say: I’d like you to go provide the service and dig my gold up now please.
This is different to a dollar note back in the day when the dollar was actually pegged to gold, at which point we could have gone to the bank in theory and said: Okay here’s my ten dollars. Can I have my ten dollars’ worth of gold?
How is that different? How is MINER different to that?
You’re saying it’s not pegged to a currency. It’s not pegged to the actual gold itself.
It’s actually a representation of the labour of the mining minutes. Is that correct?
That’s right. The emphasis is on, the value is placed on, something different.
In any case, it’s… I mean, I hate the term ‘human capital’ because I think of humans as more than capital – it’s on that service.
That takes a great deal of technology know-how, money, expertise and really just plain hard work. Gold mining is hard work, right? So that’s where the value is. It’s on all of that to produce that gold for you.
And the gold is a by-product of that. It’s the product of the service.
So, it’s different in that sense.
The Bi-Metal Standard
We’ve run into problems with the gold standard in the past. We’ve had several iterations of it.
I don’t know if you know, but in the United States there was a bi-metal standard for a long time. Gold and silver were money.
When the silver was removed from that, it undermined the middle class.
It was the first really big attempt to screw the middle class. And because silver was the ‘everyman’s money’ and gold was the money of the wealthy, silver worked then, like paper does now.
They took it away and said: Okay, we’re no longer on a bi-mental standard. We’re on a gold standard now.
And That Robbed the Middle Class of Their Status
And that robbed the middle class of their status. Their money was no longer money.
People now are concerned about: Where did the middle class go?
They blame it on the jobs going overseas or whatever, but there are all kinds of reasons that that the wealth distribution is frankly all f*cked up right now.
The first real iteration of that was when we went off bi-metal standard to the gold standard.
So, those who say today: Oh we need to get back on the gold standard… Actually don’t know what they’re talking about, because that was what screwed us in the first place.
So, MINER is different. And it’s simple.
MINER Is Not a Gold-Back Crypto
MINER is not an attempt to peg to gold.
It’s not a gold-backed crypto like 70 others out there are.
And it’s not like paper gold, where it’s a gold certificate – an ETF or something like that. Or a gold IRA account or something like that.
That stuff never leads to real gold.
If Everyone Were to Try to Get Their Gold, Probably Three Quarters or More of the World Would Find It’s Not There
There’s a fundamental problem in the world about the ratio of gold assets: paper gold to actual gold. If everyone were to try to go get their gold, probably three quarters or more of the world would find it’s not there.
The Promise That We Make Is That When You Want Your Gold, We’ll Go Dig It for You
We don’t make any claim that the gold is waiting in a vault for them. We have, at times, inventory of gold but the promise that we make is, when you want your gold, we’ll go dig it for you!
And we’ll refine it, and we’ll send it to you by secured courier. It’ll arrive at your house.
And if You Don’t Need It, Don’t Order It!
Because you’ve got your claim tickets anyway, and they have value in themselves.
They could be traded for Bitcoin or Ethereum, or basically in exchange for cryptocurrencies. If you want to hold less MINER you can get out of it.
If you have a physical need for gold because you’re an electronics manufacturer or whatever, we’ll supply you.
If you don’t need it, hang on to MINER if you want, because it’s a safe place to store your wealth.
It’s Technically Not a Currency
If I’m not purchasing MINER tokens, am I acquiring them? I’ve got possession of MINER tokens. I might be carrying them on my phone, I might be carrying them in another form of a wallet. An electronic wallet.
I can effectively hold on to those. They can be in my possession, albeit in an electronic form, like other tokens that are available on the cryptocurrency scene. Although it’s not a cryptocurrency. Is that correct?
No, it’s cryptographic and it’s decentralised ledger technology and so, it’s blockchain. But it’s technically not a currency. On a technical level.
I mean, basically, most people, even those who hold it probably think it’s a cryptocurrency, but it’s technically not a currency.
It’s technically a store of value.
There are a lot of different terms:
· legal tender
· lawful money
· store of value
All these, they all have these overlapping areas. They’re not all subsets of each other. They’re similar.
MINER Is a Crypto Asset and a Utility Token
It is a crypto asset and it’s a utility token.
You said: We can buy them. I said: We don’t sell them.
And the reason is that it’s really…
You can think of it like a software license. It’s a digital certificate.
An easy way to think of it is like, if you were to get a book of massages or dry cleanings or something like that, that you bought in advance. Say, you bought it for Christmas. It was offered as a gift card or a book of tickets or something, that you wanted to give as a gift.
So, no matter how much you pay for them at that point, whenever you go in to get your dry cleaning done, or get a massage, you just peel off one of those. It’s good for your one-hour massage. It’s good for the service, right?
So, each token, while it will have a dynamic price in the market, each token is good for one minute of mining service.
I see. That’s a very good analogy, I think. It’s easy for people who are maybe not moving in the crypto world to understand a bit more easily…
I understand that it’s a service. It’s a bottom line service. And it’s a service that’s sold in increments of time, in advance. So, say, I want 2000 minutes of mining time, well, that’s 2000 MINER tokens.
Right now, that will get you at least an ounce of gold, if you were to redeem it. And that will change and presumably go up. But who knows? The markets can be funny.
The bottom line is that you’ll always be holding 2000 minutes of mining time if you’re holding 2000 MINER tokens.
We Have Two Values to Keep in Mind
So my question is this, I’m holding tokens. I can redeem them through The Miner Network for mining minutes, and that can be… That can result in actual physical goal delivery to my home, securely.
How is the token price affected?
I know that with other things that I purchase – maybe I’m purchasing some Bitcoin or maybe I purchase Ethereum, and I definitely have a view to hoping that it’s going to go up. Hoping that it’s going to increase in value.
How would I look at the MINER token in that way, if it’s not pegged to gold, and if it’s not a cryptocurrency?
We have two values to keep in mind.
The initial value for our soft launch or a pre-sales, (’cause we’re heading into main launch and we’ve already had our soft launch, which sold out quickly).
The soft launch value was at our cost.
We determined the one minute of mining time based on 365 days of mining previous, and we might have been mining for a couple of years, (in mines that we’ve acquired that have been mining longer than that). And so, we’ve got this historically accurate accounting of how much gold comes out of the ground, net gold, in a minute.
Okay, based on the past year (365 days of mining time), in that 365 days, we have all the accounting to show X amount of gold, as a weight of gold, comes out as our net profit. Or net extracted gold.
So after this process, after it’s been treated, it’s…
It’s after everything. It’s our cost of acquiring the gold from the ground. What does that come out to? In a weight, in gold?
So, that we can consider… We call the net gold extracted. Or you can think of it almost like the redemption value. After redeeming for the service:
What’s the value of the gold that comes from the service?
What’s the weight in gold?
So that’s where we’ve been priced for our soft launch, or launch Phase One (pre-sales).
That’s where we’ll be on day one of our main launch as well. After that, after day one of main launch, we’re going to be priced…
We Let the Market Price It
We believe in letting our customers give the token its value.
So, there could be speculation there. I mean like any token, there could be speculation based on gold price expectations. Based on MINER’s value to society.
Based on our efficiencies in the past, versus our likely efficiencies in the future.
Based on all kinds of things.
We just did a two-million-dollar upgrade to our mining equipment at one of our mines, and that should increase efficiency. So, maybe people will look at that.
But the bottom line is that mining is a difficult business.
We’re not promising a moon shot. We’re not suggesting that this is a 100x play, like you see so many altcoins and sh*tcoins doing these days.
We expect that MINER will be quite stable with a with a real intrinsic value, because you can exchange it for the service at any time and get gold delivery. So, there will be market influences.
We’re Really Good With the Idea of Being Totally Transparent
We welcome that because frankly, we’re really good with the idea of being totally transparent, and letting the market choose what they think its value should be.
That choice will be based on supply-and-demand? There are not limited amounts of mining minutes – I was going to ask if there are limited amounts of tokens available?
OK, because of the different nature of MINER from the altcoins out there, we’re not, mostly at least, a supply-and-demand-determined value because of the redeemable…
Because you can have gold delivered when you redeem for the service.
So right now, we have identified a number of tokens based on the mines that we have, and time frames to mine them, and the number of expected minutes that it’s going to take to mine the gold in those areas.
We Own More Territory or Gold Mines Than We Are Currently Tokenising
We own more territory or gold mines than we are currently tokenising. So, we have room to expand.
And we can also scale with the addition of mines that we don’t own, or that we partner with, or whatever. So, when we add more mining minutes, and the extractive gold goes up as well from those mining minutes, then we can add more tokens.
Right now, it is a set number of tokens.
I think we sold about 11 million worth in our soft launch, something like that. There’s more than that becoming available for main launch, and then it’s scalable.
And unlike Bitcoin, which there’s 20 million, 21 million tokens ever. MINER doesn’t have an upper limit. Because if we increase supply, we increase the service as well, and so, it’s really not a supply-and-demand play on that level.
Like Bitcoin is purely – Bitcoin’s a pure supply-and-demand play. If Bitcoin could go to a billion Bitcoins, then it would be valueless.
Let’s say, I didn’t have a 21 million Bitcoin cap, but had unlimited Bitcoins that could be made, it would be truly valueless.
If We Increase the Number of Tokens, It’s Because We’ve Increased the Mining Efforts
With MINER it’s only relevant to the present time.
Because if we increase the number of tokens, it’s because we’ve increased the mining efforts. And we can supply the gold for that service. So, it’s really not a supply-and-demand play, which makes it quite different from currencies.
Not that the central banks are doing a very good job of that supply-and-demand aspect right now, since they’re printing seemingly unlimited money. But they’re supposed to be a supply-and-demand play, they’re supposed to only so much that a…
They supply based on their own demand, because they want to supply more!
Yeah, so that’s part of the problem. And it’s a huge part of the problem of the global instability that we’re going to see very soon here, is that you can’t just keep printing money, or no one’s going see that it has value anymore.
Devaluation Is a Very Real Thing
So given we are in the middle of that – we’re in the middle of a very tumultuous time for various reasons. And we’re seeing the printing of money, and we’re seeing the devaluation or the lack of value or the reduction and value, and what our dollars can actually buy – what our fiat currency can actually acquire.
And simultaneously, we’re seeing prices go up (and that’s called inflation). So, there’s all these different ways that we’re getting hit in our hip pocket, so to speak.
Here’s my question, would you say that MINER token is something for corporate? Or is it for Ma and Pa Kettle?
Are we talking every day people?
Who is MINER for?
That’s a great question. Devaluation is the way I look at the Federal Reserve and other central bank currencies. Whether you want to call it inflation, or stagflation or deflation – there’s all kinds of people looking at all different ways that it could go, or whatever.
But the common thread there is, devaluation.
And you’re seeing it with Bitcoin going up 20% a year because (and now like 600% a year), because it’s a flight to quality away from the reserve note, and other central bank currencies.
So, devaluation is a very real thing. No matter how you cook the books to register the amount of inflation. Whether you call it 2% or 20%, the truth is, it’s higher than any of that. Because if I’m sitting on US dollars, I’m not doing anywhere near as well as if I’m sitting on a Bitcoin.
(So we don’t, by the way. My company and I personally don’t have any US dollars other than what I need to go buy groceries tomorrow. Everything else is in Bitcoin, Ethereum and MINER, and gold mines, but…)
That was just a point I wanted to make. What was the actual question?
Yeah, that was a great point. I was having a lengthy conversation with a lady in the supermarket, we’d just been sent into lockdown, and it was this great snaking queue to pay for our groceries.
We were there talking about the devaluation of the dollar. Thank you for clarifying that.
So my question was: Who is MINER for?
OK, thank you. That’s a very important question.
It was very important to us, when we started from day one, before the white paper was even written… It was very important to us that…
MINER Is for Everyone
The short story I told you about going off the bi-metal standard onto the gold standard, and how it’s screwed the middle class?
That’s not a game we’re going to play.
MINER’s for everyone.
Which means in the token world, in the crypto world, it means it has to be a utility token. Which is why, part of why, we built it that way.
Security tokens require qualified investors.
So you have to make several hundred thousand dollars a year for a number of years, or have millions in the bank. Or you have to be a wealthy corporation, an institutional buyer. But the common man or woman, can’t legally own any crypto or utilise…
You Don’t Own It. It’s a Software License
And you know in our case, you don’t own it. It’s a software license. You can’t use a crypto and can’t be in possession of it, unless you’re a qualified investor.
So only the rich can play.
We Wanted to Design a Token That Is for Everyone
We think and know that this has value to the average individual.
We think and know it has value to the ESG, or impact investor-oriented family offices who’re quite wealthy.
We think and know this has value to central banks, they can hold… They can hold it as part of their reserve requirements in many countries. We looked into the laws and regulations of many central banks, and this is a central bank play as well. They can hold MINER as well.
It’s literally for everyone.
And then of course, I don’t want to have it left out – that’s obvious is that if you’re a gold, if you’re a manufacturer with gold in your supply chain, then we’re a no-brainer. It’s a way to hold the kind of agreements that have been in existence forever with gold mines and refineries, with companies that need it.
An Example in a Different Industry
And I’ll just give you an example in a different industry. If you’re American Airlines, you don’t want to be buying all of your gas or your fuel orders in, the day before.
You fly 747s.
It’s not like you just pull up to the gas station, like you do in your car.
You need to know that you have a steady supply of fuel and that you’re never going to be held up.
That flight from Chicago to Rome isn’t going to be unavailable for lack of fuel, so if you have a supply chain need. And gold is a part of it.
Then like American Airlines needs fuel, you want to make sure that your supply chain is planned for, and taken care of. And you have a reliable source for it that has its own mines and mining operations, and personnel. And a whole mechanism there to deliver gold on demand.
I wanted to ask about the actual values that are driving MINER, because I think that’s part of the answer as well. The fact that it’s not necessarily instantaneously there in a vault, waiting to be sent.
That’s actually, to me, reflecting some of the basic values of MINER, which is related to environmental protection and taking care of the planet in respect…
Well, in regards to the environmental impact of mining, can you talk a little bit about that?
Yeah, absolutely. So we have cash-on-hand, we could double our mining right now if we wanted to… We really don’t. Well not in-house anyway.
Lead-by-Example Ways to Improve the Way the World Looks at Mining Gold
There’s several kind of, lead-by-example ways to improve the way the world looks at mining gold. And there are several scaling ways. And what I mean by lead-by-example is we don’t want to use…
We don’t want to leach cyanide, mercury into our environment.
We don’t want to burn it off in the atmosphere.
We don’t want people harmed by it who are working at the mine.
There’s a lot of human and environmental damage that’s done, so we don’t do those things.
We Have What’s Called the Miner Pledge
We tell what we do.
And we also invite the world’s mining operations to sign our pledge with us.
(So far, no one has. I’m not terribly surprised.)
It Is Good Business to Operate With a Friendly Footprint
But hopefully, some of these other companies will see that it is good business to operate with a friendly footprint on the environment. And without your boot-heal on the back of your worker’s neck.
We hope that example will carry over into the industry.
A Major Way We Can Affect the Industry Is by Scaling
But also, the major way we can affect the industry is scaling.
So, if we have these standards for ourselves and our own gold mines, and let’s say another gold mine wants to partner with us: have us tokenise the output of their mines; tokenise their service; and provide their gold into our supply chain.
Then we have the opportunity to impact how they perform.
Because to be a part of The Miner Network and in our supply chain, and have us tokenise their output for them, they’re going to have to play by The Miner Pledge.
So we see our scaling opportunity as pretty immediate, first of all. We’re ready to scale. And we’re looking at quite a number of different ways of doing that.
How Do We Scale Ethically?
We’re talking with a number of different mining operations and refineries, and we’re very deeply looking at how to best scale. The number one question for us in doing that is, how do we do that ethically?
How do we do that in a way that brings our ethics in ethical mining practices, broad? Right now we’re kind of a minnow in the mining industry, but if we were to swallow a whale, how would we eat it all?
The answer is one bite at a time.
But the big benefit there is that we get to dictate (or not dictate, this too strong), we get to strongly influence and insist upon, how their mining is going to be done, going forward.
If they want to play with this. Otherwise they can’t…
Scaling Is a Big Opportunity for Us, for the Environment, for Humanity, for the Way We Treat Our Workers
So, scaling is a big opportunity for us. For the environment, for humanity, for the way we treat our workers and all.
Solving the problems that ‘the dirtiest business in the world’ (or one of them), has. We think it can be done by scaling, and how we go about it.
And so effectively, rather than starting new gold mines yourselves, you’re talking about… MINER is looking to not necessarily absorb other mines, but to work together with other mines.
Because as I understand, there are certain expectations that are developing in terms of the UN and these sustainability goals, which may or may not be ESG fluff. There are certain expectations of these mining organisations to introduce strict measures to take care of both the environment and the humans that are working within that mine…
Not necessarily in that order.
So as I see it, MINER could have an amazing impact in leading the way and giving those existing mines (which don’t have a great reputation at all), a gentle way forward, an easy way forward, where they don’t have to reinvent the wheel.
They can adapt what they’re doing to what MINER’s Pledge is talking about…
And what we’ve learned over the three years we’ve been building MINER, is that the answers to these things aren’t always the obvious ones.
When I wrote the white paper for the token three years ago, almost three years ago, it seemed logical that we would want all of our mines (this is just an example), all of our mines in North America.
The Standards Are Quite a Bit Higher Here
Why? Because a.) we can watch them. (I kind of go back and forth most of time between Canada and the United States, and have homes in both. First of all, I can keep an eye on them.)
But most importantly b.) that the standards are quite a bit higher here than in Africa, Australasia, South America, Central America… It’s much easier to provide environmentally-friendly and humanely-extracted gold from a North American mine, than from one in Papua New Guinea or Sierra Leone or Peru, or wherever – South Africa.
So, the obvious choice going into it seemed to be: We’re gonna stick to North American gold mines in North American standards. And we’re going to rate… We’re going to operate above those standards, and then we’ll be good!
The Biggest Offenders Are Elsewhere
When you get a little deeper into this project, as I’ve found, you discovered that the real… The biggest offenders are elsewhere.
And if we going to clean up the problem, then we really need to be in those places (and others) that I just identified.
We need to be in Australasia.
In Papua New Guinea.
Or at least we need to be contracting with operations that are operating there, so that we have some influence.
So, it’s counter-intuitive.
And the whole process has been certainly one of learning where the biggest problems are in the industry. And how we can affect them in the most profound ways.
It looks like scaling to those areas may be a big part of it.
If working with a mine in Western Australia or Guyana is better – it gets us more cleaning up of the environment than operating with one in Arizona, then that’s probably what we should look at doing.
So very counterintuitive from where we started.
There Are Opportunities to Clean up the Mining Business Everywhere
I’m not saying the United States or Canada is doing it all right either… Or Australia, or the ones that you think are doing it well: European ones.
There’s opportunity to clean up the extraction business everywhere.
We Need to Get Beyond Extractivism
And we really need to get out of the… it’s a mentality thing as well. We need to get beyond extractivism and into healthy supply for supply chain.
And they’re just different mentalities.
This idea that we can just extract everything from the earth and leave it a blight. Leave it one big brownfield. As a species, we need to get beyond that.
And so you were mentioning that you were looking to work perhaps in Australia, in different parts of the world, how would somebody who was interested to work or to learn more about MINER, how would they do that?
Those sites are kind of merging right now, so in a month or so, they’re probably going to look… They’re probably going to look like the same site.
But both of those URLs will still work. If you reach out to customer support at one of those sites, you’ll get me eventually. I don’t mean like next month, you’ll get me pretty easily… It doesn’t go directly to me, but you’ll get me!
If your mine is looking to tokenise the output of your mine, and want to discuss it…
We’re all there in discussions with quite number of them right now. And we see that as good business for everyone and good for the environment.
Lip Service Version of Cleaning up the Industry
Because there are people within these major mining organisations, and it might seem that the mining organisation is just so huge that they wouldn’t even consider…
Like you spoke about the minnow in the stream, but there are people whose job is to uphold these ESG, these environmental, social and governance principles.
And it would be amazing to see that these mining organisations are not just paying lip service and making themselves look good by creating an amazing infographic, but actually doing it in reality.
It seems to me that The Miner Network is providing a really wholesome but solid way forward, which can mean that, sincerely, we can make change.
So people can still have profitable mines, it’s not that we’re just trying to cut down mining, but to give it a different flavour and to create a planet which is… Which is still here for our children and grandchildren.
Let’s face it, things are heading in a fairly drastic direction, and nobody really seems to be taking a whole lot of notice of it, especially perhaps not the CEOs of these massive mining organisations.
You’ve touched on twice the lip service version of cleaning up the industry. And you’re right, there’s a problem. It’s not just in the mining industry, it’s across all industries right now.
There’s a problem where the UN sets certain standards. Or the World Bank does, or some other organisation does. And there’s a big meeting in Davos and everyone says: Okay, we’re going to do this now.
A Guideline for How They Can Pretend to Be Helping the World While They Trash It
And I think most industry leaders use that as an opportunity for lip service. They use it as a guideline for how they can pretend to be helping the world while they trash it.
I’m very close to the information on where we stand on so many different precipices in our own existential and catastrophic risk factors, and we do need to start taking this stuff seriously.
I mentioned that we’re at sort of inflection point in a number of ways in the world right now, and one of them is financial…
It’s not the only one. We’re at an inflection point in quite a number of different ways, including environmental. And we need to be serious about it, and MINER is very serious about it.
The Miner Network is extremely serious about it.
This Is Not Lip Service
We’re not: Oh, we’re going to make billions of dollars and save the world.
We’re like: Well, we don’t even want the billions of dollars.
Everything in The Miner Network profit pool is pledged to… For The Miner Network’s objectives and the objectives of Origin Trust Foundation, and those organisations are not-for-profit.
We’re Just Not in It for the Flashy Cars
We’re just not in it for the flashy cars.
And the 3,2 billion submarine yacht.
This is not what it’s about. So we’re very serious about it. Yeah.
So I guess that comes back to what… An earlier discussion around the values of MINER, the values that you hold as the Founder and CEO, and what’s driving the project forward.
It’s definitely got a different flavour in the mining industry because it’s not so… profit-centered, profit-centric.
I’m Looking to Be the Un-Billionaire
I want to be one of the fastest rise to billions in the history of entrepreneurialism so that I can say: I don’t want it here. It’s all for this.
I think we have a terrible problem with valuation as a society. What we think is of value. So a MINER has attempted to change where we put the value.
It’s attempted to change what determines the value.
It’s attempted to distribute the benefit across all walks of life, on all parts of the planet – including among humans who can hold it and benefit from it.
We’ve tried to introduce a level of transparency. That’s rare.
We Don’t Want the Money
We’ve tried to introduce a level of accountability. That’s rare.
And the proof is in the pudding.
We don’t want the money.
So we’re building a big money-maker that we really don’t want the money – the money is for others.
So, it’s an interesting juxtaposition though, because MINER – you’re saying you want to be the ‘un-billionaire’ and you don’t want the money, but at the same time, it’s a safe place for people to park their wealth so that they do feel protected.
I think we don’t want to give across the message that we don’t want any of you to make money, we just here to save the planet…
The way people know that it’s got its honesty and integrity behind it, is that we’re not trying to take their money.
I mean, the problem with Wall Street (I worked for a Wall Street company), the problem with Wall Street is that they’re not in the business of making you money.
Your broker and hedge fund manager’s job isn’t to make you money. Their job is to hold your money and make money with it. Same with banks. By some accounts… Allegedly two-thirds of US GDP is Wall Street, they’re not producing anything.
Their Sole Job Is to Make Money With Your Money
That’s not growth. That’s not GDP. That doesn’t produce anything.
So I have a soft spot for any organisation that actually produces something that the world needs.
Which is a small percentage of jobs in industry out there.
And I have an especially warm place for those who do that, and don’t try to take advantage of you as the customer in doing so…
So it was easy to put the price on our net goal product weight for redemptions – to give the price to MINER for self-launch. And for Day One of main launch. It’s our cost, and that doesn’t… It doesn’t include a lot of the capital we spent on development. It’s our cost.
The acquisition of the mines – it’s our cost of mining, is where that price comes from.
So we’ve been giving it away so far. I mean you could say we sold 11 million worth of service, but really, we’ve been giving away at our cost, so our money’s where our mouths are…?
What Do You Want to Do With MINER?
Your intention with MINER is to make money. Obviously, you’re looking to create a profitable… Well, I don’t know if this is obvious, so let’s explore this.
You’re looking to create a profitable movement, but you’re not looking for that those profits to be going into the pockets of the CEO and other people in the company. Is that what you’re referring to?
What is it that you want to do with MINER? What is the bigger picture?
Yeah, you’re not wrong. MINER in itself is not a non-profit. It is a for-profit company.
Or several companies – a for-profit environment, let’s say. But all of the profits are dedicated to not-for-profits.
So, it’s able to compete as a for-profit instead of having it hands-tied as a 501 C3 or something like that. It operates as a for-profit.
It Has No Intention of Keeping Its Profits
It has no intention of keeping its profits or distributing to shareholders, or hoarding them for the CEO.
MINER is meant to fund The Miner Network and Origin Trust Foundation. Both, and that’s origintrust.org which I’m also a founder of. So, you can look at those as well.
Those organisations have no profit motive at all.
They don’t fundraise in a serious way.
They don’t spend their money on fundraising.
They’re not beholden to any other finance or donor or funder.
So, they don’t have any problems there.
Doing True Research and True Work to Clean up the World
They are doing true research and true work to clean up the world, and deal with those existential and catastrophic risk factors that I was mentioning earlier.
A Mining Organisation Which Is Practicing Ethical and Responsible Mining
So we can see… It’s an interesting thing, isn’t it?
To have a mining organisation, which is… The mining sector has got such a shocking reputation for destroying the planet (and not so great with human rights either), so you’ve got a mining organisation which is practicing ethical and responsible mining, the funding from which… Or the profits from which are being funnelled into another organisation.
Its sole purpose is to try and solve the problems that are existing in the planet in the first place.
So it’s an interesting paradox.
Well, and that was part of the genesis of MINER. Origin Trust Foundation, we were looking to fund for more than a decade. And came very close with billions on a number of occasions and several different… They’re all different scenarios, but in all cases involved a donor.
And in all cases, the donor was the problem and we never got the funding.
Let’s Create a Financial Engine – a for-Profit Company That Can Fund the Not-for-Profit
And so MINER came about in part at least, as a method of funding that organisation so that it could get going.
Because to wait for the perfect donor was becoming futile. And so we decided: let’s create a financial engine, a for-profit company that can fund the not-for-profit.
Had you already had a background in mining, that you understood so much about the industry?
No, my background is in investing in finance and entrepreneurialism, and running businesses. Not mining. I only knew about it from what I had read.
So, mining is new. And it was a bit of a learning curve.
But as an entrepreneur (and I started all different kinds of businesses)… So, as an entrepreneur, what I know is that, the less I know about part of the business, the more I just need someone in a director or a C-level position who really knows it and who I can trust.
It’s the same way on the crypto, I can’t write an ERC 20 token.
I can’t build a website.
I can’t run mine.
But I don’t need to.
I can’t even run a marketing department.
But I don’t need to because I have some of the best in the business doing all those things.
Why Are We so Obsessed With Gold?
I know we could go ahead and for a long time, and I would suggest we might come back together and really go deeply into each of these different areas.
As I see it with MINER, we’ve got a whole crypto area which could be really interesting for all those people in the crypto sphere that really understand cryptocurrency, but also the new people coming into the space that are excited to learn about MINER.
And then we’ve got the finance sector, I think that whole mining organisations and you’re mentioning central banks and things, that could really learn more and see how they can profit from this. And not only for their own monetary drive, but for a bigger picture.
But then we’ve got the whole environmental sector.
So I feel like we’ve got a whole lot more that we could be going deep diving into in all of those three areas.
What would you say… It’s kind of a double-sided question.
Why are we so obsessed with gold? That’s question one.
And it could be related: What do you see as the future of money or currency?
Those are great questions. I might add that if we’re going come back and do this again repeatedly, let’s talk about Origin one time too…
First question: Why are we obsessed with gold?, I assume you don’t mean you and me, I assume you mean, as a society…
I think there are a number of different reasons for that, throughout history.
Because It Was Flashy
Originally, because it was flashy. And to a certain extent, look at Donald Trump’s apartment or whatever… it still is flashy.
It’s Had Practical Real Uses
I think throughout history, it’s had practical, real uses.
Back in the days of the Egyptians and stuff, it was white powder gold. It was ormus.
Today, it’s used in electronics and things like that. It’s a very good conductor. It’s soft, it’s malleable. It’s easy to work with, compared to hard stones like diamonds.
It’s much easier to work with gold.
Gold Is the Most Concentrated Portable Asset
It has its practical uses.
It has its historical uses.
But I’d say the number one thread throughout all of our recorded history, our known written history, is that gold is the most concentrated portable asset.
It’s a commodity.
It’s commodity money, first of all.
So it has a real intrinsic value. I think we’re going to reach a day in the near future where central bank money has no value…
You see it happened in Venezuela, everywhere, every day. Whatever you were paid yesterday, is worth half as much as when you go to the grocery store the next day. So, everyone gets paid and goes straight to the grocery store.
That kind of hyper-inflation scenario that was present after World War II Germany, and things like that. There’s historical precedent that every fiat currency, every central bank-issued currency, winds up that way.
We’re Headed Toward a Global Catastrophe
And all of our central bank currencies are all tied together right now. So I think we’re headed toward a global catastrophe where that’s the case everywhere, is that the money is just worthless.
The Central Bank Fiat Currencies All Become Worthless
Which circles back around, and why did we create MINER? Well, MINER won’t be worthless. Now, I don’t think Bitcoin will be either, just as a side note, nor Ethereum.
But the central bank fiat currencies all become worthless, eventually. Historically – every one of them…
So, gold has historically been the most trusted hedge when that occurs.
People Hold Gold Because Gold Holds Its Value
Back in early 1900s, you could buy a suit for one ounce of gold: a nice tailored men’s suit for one ounce of gold. Today, one ounce of gold will get you a nice tailored men’s suit.
Back then it was 20 bucks or 10 for an ounce. Now it’s 1700-1800, 2000 for an ounce, but it still has the same buying capacity. And hasn’t always been exact, right?
But basically, I’d love to see if you’ve taken that $20 and put it in a vault in 19~ whatever, if it would be worth a men’s suit today.
But the gold would.
If instead, you put the ounce of gold in the vault and you still have it to this day, and you could go buy another men’s suit with it.
So that’s really… It’s the tried-and-true hedge.
What Do You See as the Future of Money or Currency?
It’s pretty clearly going decentralised.
It’s going on blockchain, and it’s already there. Bitcoin is not perfect. Still in development in many ways. Same with Ethereum. There are large teams of people working on it all the time, to make it scale.
That technology has scalability issues right now: with speed; with size of transaction; with cost of transaction.
There’s a lot of things that are being worked on. The number of Bitcoin transactions that can happen in a second, is nowhere near the number of Visa transactions for example. So, that stuff’s happening.
A Combination of the Historical Hedge of Gold and the New Hedge of Crypto
But that’s the future of money. And I wanted to bring to that future, the combination of the historical hedge of gold and the new hedge, or the future of money, and put them together.
So that you have something that behaves like the future of money.
Knowing We’re Trusting the Technology
Knowing we’re trusting the technology that’s current technology.
And avoids the middle man.
And is trustless (as they say in the crypto world) because…
Which doesn’t mean you can’t trust it. It means it doesn’t need someone else to trust you. It doesn’t need a banker or a broker in the middle. You and I can transact directly, knowing we’re trusting the technology.
So technology that makes things not need a trusted intermediary.
Getting the Banks Out of the Way Is a Great Idea
So, that disintermediation, getting the banks out of the way, is a great idea. They don’t like it. But it’s a great idea.
And then when you’ve got that kind of technology, also though, combined with the most tried-and-true, only known real hedge there is, which is commodity money in the densest, and common-enough form.
So there’s a reason that gold is more popular than silver to put in the safe, because it takes up less room.
But there’s also a reason that gold is more popular than something far more expensive. Some element that’s far more expensive. Because you can actually acquire it and you can hold it.
MINER’s the Best Of Both: Crypto and Gold
So gold is that happy medium of a commodity that can behave as true money. And so, gold, silver, Bitcoin, Ethereum and MINER (which is really kind of that combination of a Bitcoin and gold). Not exactly.
But it’s the best of both: crypto, and the tried-and-true safe haven, which is gold.
So. that’s what we bring to the market.
That’s what we’re trying to do.
That’s what we’re doing.
And I think that MINER, though not technically money, it is a store of value. Which is like gold – it isn’t technically money.
(Well it depends on how you define money.)
But in legal terms, neither one of them is money. They are the the tried-and-true store of value-based assets.
Gold and MINER.
If You’re Looking for a Long Shot (100 X Play), Go Some Place Else
Bitcoin’s more volatile than either gold or MINER.
So is Ethereum.
And certainly all the alt-shitcoins out there are much more volatile.
So if you’re looking for a long shot, 100 X play, go some place else.
If You’re Looking for Something That Really Is a Solid Store of Value
But if you’re looking for something that really is a solid store of value that has all of the transactability of Bitcoin, and all of the safe haven of gold, that’s what MINER tokens for.
It seems to me like you’ve got the solidity of gold.
You’ve got the historical proof, the social proof is there, well and truly.
And that’s married with this modern cryptocurrency, like you say, that the fact that you can transact so easily.
The fact that it is absolutely taking over so many conversations in the financial world right now, it does seem like a perfect union between the old and the new, effectively.
And that was the primary intention of it…
Let’s get the best of both here.
Running on Unicorns and Rainbows
There was a debate going on for years from the time Bitcoin arrived on the scene: Which is the right play in this market? (That’s been basically running on unicorns and rainbows and thin air since 2008, since we bailed out the banking industry…)
Where’s the Right Place to Put Your Wealth?
And MINER was devised as the answer to that.
You can call it a new gold standard, but that’s a great way to look at it.
It’s meant to be literally the safest place you could put your wealth in uncertain times, because it’s the best of gold and crypto.
So, it works like any other crypto in the modern money and banking sense. And has the intrinsic value underlying it of that service of gold mining that provides physical gold if you want it.
So Christian, this sounds really exciting. We’ve got the ancient use of gold, we’ve got that married with modern cryptocurrencies.
Where can people find out more so that they can get involved in the launch?
You mentioned that the launch is happening soon.
Where’s the best place for people to put their email address so they can be on the mailing list, and the first ones to know about it?
What you want to do, is become a member of The Miner Network. You can do that from either of those sites. (And like I said, within a month or so, they’ll probably be pretty much the same site, as we’re merging them now.)
The First Step Is Become a Member of the Miner Network
And in doing so, basically what you’re saying is, yes, I believe in these environmental objectives and these objectives for humanity.
And we want to support this.
And we’d like to know… I’d like to know more when the MINER token launch comes available.
Joining The Miner Network doesn’t commit you to acquire MINER tokens, it’s just kind of step one.
We’re building an audience there.
We’ve been doing it in grassroots recently, that’s going to pick up quite a lot now with a fully-funded marketing department. So we’re going to be much better known very soon.
If You Want to Be an Early Adopter, Be in the Online Launch
But if you want to be an early, potentially early adopter and be in online launch, then become a member of The Miner Network, and we will keep you posted first!
You’ll always know everything first.
Fantastic, well, thank you for the awesome conversation, I look forward to coming back and diving into those various areas, including learning a lot more about Origin.
Yes, thank you. Thanks for a great discussion.
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